Interviewee
Entrepreneur and corporate executive with demonstrated track record. Recent CEO of a startup developing the world's first robots for fully automated restaurants: Pazzi. Took the company from the R&D stage to successfully opening 2 autonomous restaurants in Paris. Raised 12M€ and received multiple innovation awards in the food and robotics field.
Transcript
Philippe Goldman: My career started a very long time ago. I loved launching brands in the French market. I loved it. And, then I decided to plug the company, I would say 15 years ago. Then I joined a multinational that you may know, and had an amazing 11 years in L'Oreal. But at the end of these 11 years, I wanted to go back to my entrepreneur life. So I decided to join an investment firm and just go back to the world of startups.
And all of a sudden two guys came and they were creating the, the first autonomous restaurant in the world. It was back in 2016. There was nothing existing at that time. And it was amazing. I said, Wow, that's something I should do in my next decade. I'm gonna go to that. I didn't know anything about food, nothing about tech, but you know, when you have something strong, you need to go for it. So I said, “I will invest in the company”. I started to do some design thinking about the project because it was very early, it was in pure r and d at that time. And to, and then they only, what I knew at that time were they were making a robot. They wanted to show the robot and they wanted to make good pizza. And I said, I like it. So, six months later I became the CEO. We were only five
Elisa Muñoz: I'm really sad about this new announcement, but I'm pretty sure that you can share with us some insights about the company and what led you guys to the closure. I mean, it's sad, but at the end of the day, it's also learning, right?
Philippe Goldman: Yeah. It's a big learning because when you are interning in robotics, you are in the hardware world and hardware is odd. It's hard because you are entering a new field, And probably we are the first ones to do that. The project was started in 2013. Exactly. I joined later, but it started in 2013. And when you start something, which is, nobody knows, you don't have any know-how, you know, So you need to invent yourself. You need to test, test and learn. You had to put a robot in ovens at 400 degrees.
We had to put robotics into minus 20 degrees sets as well. We had to invent how a robot can cook, especially if you make pizza. It's a very organic product. So how you manage robotics with a product which is evolving along the day. And in addition, we had to show the product you have to show and put the robots at the core of the experience of the consumer, which is totally new. So putting robots in a very tiny environment, in extreme heat on the two ways, and also showing it is a very different mindset. So we had to invent that and we did it. We opened two restaurants, It was a, and it was working, the technology was amazing.
People were super happy because we demonstrated not only that a robot can cook all the way from the other to the delivery of the product, you know, in a very nice way, very entertaining. And, but also the pizza was super quality and that was a big, big challenge, you know, And so we opened to Iran the first one in 2019, and the second one in 2021 at the center of Paris.
I didn't know anything about food, nothing about tech, but you know, when you have something strong, you need to go for it. So I said, “I will invest in the company”.
Elisa Muñoz: Wow. Yes. So this is pretty recent. And I mean, as a pioneer, I would also like to hear also your perspective on how you guys came up to this situation because it sounds like everything was working really, really well, right?
Philippe Goldman: Yeah. So as a pioneer, you know, sometimes, you need to dig into it and you need to, to, to make the first recipe of, of what's happening. So you're entering a new world where you find out first that financing hardware is super hard. And I think it's not only a question in Europe, I think the same in us. I had a lot of conversations with people in the US from the east coast or west coast. They all have the same problem. You know, most of the VCs are investing in software. And because they know how by heart and know the cycle of software hardware is a very long cycle. And you, and before you get to your product, not only technically, but in terms of market fit, it takes a lot of time that most of the companies are not ready to take. There are some but not all of them.
So that made part of the complexity suddenly, which probably was atypically to our case, as we had not only to build a technology which was super complex and difficult, totally autonomous kitchen, but also we wanted to build a brand around it. You know, a promise of qualitative pizza with excellent sourcing, organic food, sustainable fishing. We showed the world of fast food and where I was telling myself we need to go away from the joint food and prove that robotics can transform an industry to a positive industry. Because for us fast food was not very positive. And, so when you have to build not only a technical solution and also a consumer solution that I would say to maintain, to climb at the same time is not easy. And probably we had to, if I had to do it again, I would have to be more focused on the B2B solution rather than trying to do two things at the same time. Because it's not the same culture.
Elisa Muñoz: I had no idea. Thank you so much for sharing. What about hardware, scalability, and market fit?
Philippe Goldman: If you look at the beauty of robotics, robotics is cool when you produce all day long and especially in France, French people have the habit of eating between 12 and two and seven to nine. If you look to the US, all over the country people intend to eat more all day long. And so the, the, the positive side of robotics is to really to fulfill that rather than having the capacity of feeling people only on specific hours. Second point, which is super important, there are much more food courts in the US rather than in France. And, when you have, when you are in mono product proposition, it's better to be in a food court than to be in a, in a street only making pizza. I would say to my people, a good tech solution is not a good recipe in terms of, you know, even if you are a tech solution and a good pizza, a good pizza is not a meal.
And people, when they get to a restaurant, they want an experience of their restaurants, of a meal, of things, of side orders and so on. And when you deliver a solution, which is a perfect solution, entertaining, cool, easy, making good pizzas it might not be enough to make a real restaurant proposition. And that's a difference. It took us a lot of time to understand that, but we developed so much. I mean, the team we have is probably one of the best in the world. We develop the software, which is capable now to, to prepare any type of food because not only pizza, you know, the hardware of course gonna change, but the software is super and it's the, the mix between the mechanical team, engineering team in, in, in mechanic and also in software, which is making the project so unique.
Elisa Muñoz: How do you see the future of kitchen tech?
Philippe Goldman: So it is gonna be a great future. There is a major issue for the food industry, which is labor, which is super difficult to find. And I think if you take a bit of perspective, automation has been every sector of your life, every sector and for the moment was not the case in the western industry. So it'll happen. It's a question of time, it's a question of finding the right technology, finding the right value proposition, it'll happen. So people need to continue to invest. We'll probably do a new, new project very soon on that. And so wait for us. And, but I think there is a great possibility. I'm not sure it'll happen in the classic restaurant industry. It'll happen for sure in fast food I, where there is a big need for solarization of process.
Elisa Muñoz: And last but not least, what will be the advice you'll give to future engineers or entrepreneurs starting on this robotics path?
Philippe Goldman: I would say two things. One, you need to believe in what you do. For sure. You need to double everything. You think, if you think it'll cost you 1 million, it'll cost you 2 million. If you think it'll take you one year, it'll take you two years. So be, be, prepare, and I prefer to tell that to the people. Do it by just seeing that it'll take longer and more money than what you think. It's a long journey. But when you do hardware, you do things which are so tangible, you know, you do things which that you can touch.
I always say Netflix is a software company, but you cannot, you cannot watch Netflix without a device. You know, you, we need hardware every day in your daily life. You know, you could have a device without a software, but you can't have a software without a device. And, and I said to engineers, continue to develop because we all need, you know, hardware in our daily lives, in your life. And so it's the most rewarding thing, I think, when you manage to develop such a thing in your life.
Elisa Muñoz: Thank you so much Philippe, for being here, and for sharing your perspective.
Philippe Goldman: Thank you, Elisa.
