Interviewee
Simone Paternostro, an Italian Space Engineer and Analog Astronaut at the Austrian Space Forum. OeWF analog astronauts are specifically trained for the OeWF Mars spacesuit simulator “Aouda” and are assigned “in analogy to” future human (Mars) expeditions for preparatory research and development projects.
Transcript
Simone Paternostro: Thanks to you for the invitation. Really appreciate it. It started quite a long time ago because my father was, well now he's retired, he was in the Italian Air Force. So since I was a child, I've seen military jet fighters pictured around and my father was one of them, not pilot, but navigator of one of them. So I always had this passion more or less.
Since I was a child, I even started to build small plastic models that you put together and paint airplanes and space shuttles and so on. So it was always a little bit in the background of my mind. But then when I finished what I was always Getting close to finishing high school, my idea was maybe to go to medicine, but then you might not believe it, but actually my mom came up and said "Why don't you go for it? As an aerospace engineer, I mean you're good at math and physics." I said "Aerospace engineer? Why not?" I mean that's actually how I ended up. And still my idea during the bachelor's was still to go into the aeronautics rather than space field, But then one course during the bachelor degree changed my view completely. The one related to orbital dynamics. And then that changed my view of the aerospace field and I wanted to go into the space field, obviously. And that's where I moved for my master degree. I moved to space engineering. So my background at the university is mainly aerospace and space engineering. After these two degrees, I continued with one more master degree because in Italy we have a slightly different system than we have in other countries. So we have bachelor degrees of three years, a master of two years and then you can either do a PhD or you can do a second level master degree. It's only one year.
So I also did that one in space engineering, it's just that space transportation systems. And after that, I moved to the UK for a PhD in satellite navigation systems where I spent like three and a half there on a PhD. It was a very good project. We were like 13 researchers in the same team. We were in a project, it was a collaboration between the University of Nottingham and the European Union. Then after finishing my project there, I found a position in the Netherlands and this was related to the management and coordination of the execution of experiments on board the ISS. So now I'm coordinating with these. I'm a contractor for the European Space Agency. So I work for an Italian company called Telespazio and there I'm coordinating the different teams that have to work on the development and integration of payloads on board the space station for the European Space Agency. I mean, at the end of the day, you end up, you ended up being a doctor. I mean, you're not a medical field, but you are a doctor indeed. And how did you end up in the Australian Space Program and related with Dr. Gernot? Yeah, that's another interesting side story because we were in the UK in the university with the other colleagues from the PhD and we were just chatting about astronauts, astronaut selection. So we say, OK, let's give a look when the next or if there is any news about the next astronaut selection from the European Space Agency. because I was interested in participating in theory. But then by chance it was the right time in which the Astron Space Forum was actually making a call for analog astronauts. So they were looking for analog astronauts to join their organization for incoming missions. So I applied. At that time was the end of 2014, beginning of 2015. Unfortunately, at that time, I was not selected as an Alogastron, but I really liked the organization. And so since then, 2015, I joined their mission. I was part of their flight control team that they have in Innsbruck. But then also in 2019, I think, they made another call for Alogastrons because they wanted to expand the number they had. So they said, "Okay, let's give it another try. I mean, what could happen again?" worst case if I'm not selected I'm still part of the case in any case. But then, the second time's a charm so then I was selected.
So every time they have to start like two, three years in advance to go looking for countries where you have a potential location that resembles Mars.
Elisa Muñoz: Okay so in a few words, an analog astronaut is someone who is not placed in a rocket and not going to Mars but is placed in a difficult environment here on Earth in a simulator suit. Am I correct?
Simone Paternostro: Well it depends on the other setup. So there are different organizations or even even the space agencies that are doing it. So it depends on what the organization or the agency wants to achieve, what kind of, let's say, challenge they want to face.
Elisa Muñoz: And I'm curious to ask about the process of being an analog astronaut. How do you go about selecting, preparing or maybe simulating for a mission?
Simone Paternostro: A lot depends on the organization. Like I said, for the astronaut space forum, they organize the mission each time in a different place because We don't have our own habitat like for the Lunares or the MDRS from the Mars Society. So every time they have to start like two, three years in advance to go looking for countries where you have a potential location that resembles Mars. So that's one aspect.
So they start two, three years in advance. They look for a location. They negotiate with the local authorities. They support what they need, if they can provide what they can provide in terms of habitat or resources and so on. And then they have to make a call to an international institution, university that would like to do an experiment. So they can propose universities or research projects, they can propose their concept. And then they select the list of experiments that can be performed during the mission. And then they buy the APIs to provide all the information, the hardware, the procedure. And then they will train the astronauts before the mission to get familiar with the equipment. And then during the mission they perform the experiment as planned by API. So they have to do a certain number of runs of each experiment.
Elisa Muñoz: So tell me something about your role. Like I know that the title is like multi-center for the ISS. So what does that mean?
Simone Paternostro: So yeah, in 2017 I started a first position because I had two positions here in the Netherlands. The first one when I arrived, then in 2020 I switched positions but within the same team. So in the first one was called Multi-increment Payload Planner. I mean, in that time frame, I was always working in the coordination of preparation of the experiment. But then I moved in 2020, I moved to the position of what is called Payload Integration Manager. In that case, instead of focusing on a time frame, the Payload Integration Manager instead is coordinating a certain set of experiments. We coordinate all the different teams that have to work on the experiment in order to be ready, launched and perform on the station.
Elisa Muñoz: I have a couple of questions left in order to finish this interview. And the first one, it will be like, what would you say has been the biggest technical challenge you have solved as an aerospace engineer? And the other one, what advice would you give to future engineers starting on this path?
Simone Paternostro: I had a couple during the PhD because when we arrived, we were 13 researchers, PhD students, we didn't know each other at all. So the first task was that we were supposed to work as a team. So the first task that our, let's say, project manager gave us was to design and build two drones. So one copter and one airplane, so I fixed what is called a fixed wing. It's an airplane like drone. and says, "Okay, I want these two UAVs ready in six months to fly. So you have to prove to me that they can do this type of mission." So the technical challenge was sometimes really to integrate the system and make it sure that it was working.
Elisa Muñoz: And for the advice you will give for future engineers?
Simone Paternostro: Yeah, so what I've seen during my university was a little bit of lack of practical, not tasks, but even projects. At least at the time I was in university, it was really mainly theoretical and coding, not much actual physical projects. So there are many opportunities, so whoever is studying engineering, try to find this side project because it's either on one side you might end up doing something fun or something that might end up in something different.
Elisa Muñoz: Wow, such great advice. Thank you so much for sharing and thank you so much for being here, Simone.
Simone Paternostro: Thanks to you, Elisa. It was a real pleasure to meet you and all the best.
