Interviewee
Dr. Robert Crockett is the Co-Founder of HaptX, a company building technology that simulates touch with unprecedented realism. Over the past three decades he has worked in the Aerospace, Biotechnology, Medical Device, and Consumer Products industries in leadership roles on both the strategic and tactical sides of engineering and IP development.
Transcript
Bob Crockett: My name is Bob Crockett. I'm a professor at Cal Poly St. Luis Obispo in California. And I'm also co-founder of Haptx which is a company that produces a pair of gloves for VR, but it's the only pair of gloves for VR that really have that true natural touch. So when you, when you have the headset on, when you have your gloves on, you interact with a virtual object, it feels real. It's not symbolic haptics, it's not vibrating or buzzing. Actually, when you interact with a virtual coffee cup, your hand is stopped and you feel the exact same pattern that you would feel if you were interacting with a real object. So we're very excited about the technology. I've been with this company doing what we do for 10 years, since we started in 2012.
Elisa Muñoz: Wow. It's really interesting. I do know that you're a professor and that you went to school for Mechanical Engineering, correct? Yeah. So how was this transition like, I mean, you went to school for engineering and then you were suddenly like, “Okay, I'm gonna start my own company” Or how do you meet your co-founder?
Bob Crockett: Yeah, sure. So, you know, I did my undergraduate in mechanical engineering. My PhD is in material science and somewhere along the line I also picked up an MBA. So I've always been interested in that intersection of technology and business. And specifically for me, what I find fascinating is, is taking technology that's just in the university labs or, or really early formation and trying to find the right fit for the market. Cause so often you have wonderful, really interesting technologies that, that die on the vine because they, they just haven't made the right transition to a, to a market that really wants.
Elisa Muñoz: So you have always been interested in the field, but 10 years ago it wasn't the same as it is now. How hard was it?
Bob Crockett: Yeah. So, you know, I knew nothing about virtual reality, that this was a totally new world for me back then. I was introduced to this all by, by our co-founder, the real driving force of half deck, Jake Rubin. And he cold called me as a 20 year old college dropout, essentially. He had taken one one semester of biomedical engineering and then quit to start an earlier company of his. And, and so this was round two and he explained to me this, this vision of a machine that you put your virtual reality headset on and strap into it and you, you lose the distinction between the real world and the virtual world.
And of course this was all new to me and it sounded a little bit wacky. It took me a while to really wrap my head around what was, what was being proposed. But I did, I tried some of the early Oculus headsets and that was the first time I had an experience with virtual reality. And you can tell it's pretty crude, you know, at, at that time. And, and it's still evolving, but you can see where it's headed. And if you can eventually get to the point where in your field of vision it's as high a resolution needed to really not be able to tell whether it's a reality or a screen in front of you, at least in concept, you can do that with, with physical pixelating your body and, and providing the right sensations across the body at the right
There's no fundamental reason why you couldn't do an equivalent of virtual reality for the entire body. So what Jake was proposing was, was very audacious, but, but not impossible. And that's what really got me started down this path.
Elisa Muñoz: So you did see a future back then, you know, in VR.
Bob Crockett: Yes, and Jake was paying me. So, you know, it was, it was easy for me to take a chance. And, it wasn't until I spent a little bit of time with Jake that I realized that no, this is, there's something real here. This is a young man who spent far too much time doing background research and thinking about this problem and has some ideas that that really can, can go places. So my role is just to help him execute that vision.
Elisa Muñoz: How hard was it or how was your first experience with investors?
Bob Crockett: Challenging. As you can imagine, you know, if you can, can picture your yourself as, as along with us on a, on an early investor trip, it was, you know, this, this old guy who had no experience in, in virtual reality and a far too young guy who had no experience in, in business trying to, to sell investors on a machine that, that sounds like it's, it's well ready player one had just been out. So it, so it kind of looked like we crib our whole idea from, from the movies, which wasn't true, you know, at all. We had this, this idea completely independently, but you can imagine it was a hard sell.
And so I, I've mentioned this before, but it's, it's really interesting. We were usually given about an hour to, to sell our case to, to early investors. And the first 50 minutes of that hour was convincing them that this could be done. And then of course we only had 10 minutes to convince them that we were the ones to do it. And that's usually where, where things, things were a little bit challenging. And it wasn't until we actually had hardware, early prototypes, that we could let people interact with that the conversation changed and they believed that not only could it be done, but that we had the engineering chops to do it.
"It wasn't until we actually had hardware (early prototypes), that we could let people interact with when then the conversation changed with the investors: They believed that it could be done".
Elisa Muñoz: Talking about this, about the technology back in the days, I know that your groups provide realistic tactic feedback. So can you share a little bit more about why it is important?
Bob Crockett: So, you know, we started with this, this vision that, that was kind of abstract, but, but really focusing in on, on how we were gonna bring this to market. Our philosophy was build, build the, the device that really is the best device that we can, that gives you the truest connection to virtual reality that really feels real. And don't worry about the market or the price at this point. Let's see what we can build, see if we can build it and, and see if there's a match between a, a customer that, that wants to pay for, for that quality of haptics. And we found out pretty soon that the answer is yes, that there's a lot of companies, companies who are customers now for our DK two, it's still, you know, the last in line of development kits.
It's not an inexpensive piece of hardware, but these are pretty big companies that know about virtual reality and have been involved in virtual reality for years and years and years. And, and also know the limitations of simulation and training in virtual reality. It's a wonderful tool for simulation and training for obvious reasons that you can create any environment you want visually, but we're human. We, we, we touch things, we interact with things and if you're, if you're missing that, that natural touch, you can have the most wonderful visual field in the world, but you're not going to learn the interior of a, of a cockpit by by point and clicking or mouse moves the training that that really doesn't have the desired effect. So our, our match really was very early on with enterprise customers who are very sophisticated users of, of virtual reality and who know what they need and just have not had a, a, a product at any price point in the market up until now that that meets that, that that kind of bar of believability.
Elisa Muñoz: You just mentioned training and I was reading through the page and I was like, “Wow, it looks like maybe it can work or it can be like a perfect fit, for the military market or for the healthcare vision. What would you say it might be the best application for both cases?
Bob Crockett: Any sort of simulation or training that involves high value equipment or risky situations is a natural fit. So it's that combination of, of it's expensive to do it in the real world, but you have to, to, to do it to really train well. That's where we fit in quite well because we can follow the same promises of virtual reality that you can create any environment you want, but in a safe way. So you're not putting the trainees at risk for firefighters or other medical responders. And you can really get the training benefits that you get from a, from an actual simulation but at a fraction of the cost. That's interesting, especially the training part. I think that's, I mean, being able to simulate or to feel the kind of situation like if it was in real time, I think that's amazing and especially for, for, for example, firefighters and I was, I was reading the article and I know that it has something to do of course with heat. So how hard it was to develop this kind of technology when it comes to the hard coach.
Elisa Muñoz: Do you remember the feeling you had whenever you tried the first gloves?
Bob Crockett: Yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's when you are part of the development of new hardware, you sort of never, I shouldn't say never, I never had that huge aha moment because progressively better and better and better. We, we knew from the start what it could be, but we're, we're thinking, you know, a couple of years ahead and, and sort of making calculation adjustments about, about not what it feels like right now, but, but, but how much room you have for development and what sort of technologies would improve it and everything like that. What's been the most rewarding is when we go to a trade show and I see the reaction of others. So, to answer your question, it's not my own personal aha moment about our technology. I'm kind of jaded by our own technology, but when you see somebody you know, literally laughing or crying or having a very emotional reaction to trying our hardware for the first time, then you realize what an impact it has and, and and what you've created and that's super rewarding.
Elisa Muñoz: And thinking about the future of HaptX, like what developments are you most excited to see, I don't know, in two to five years?
Bob Crockett: There Is so much activity behind the scenes, both at our company and of course at many other companies in the world of both the hardware that goes along with the visual side of, of VR and the software and also the, the physical side of, of hardware including haptics. And now the next phase really is making devices that people want not as a novelty but as a useful tool for business or something that is usable for entertainment.
I think that the next five years are, are really going to, to see some major, major breakthroughs, not necessarily in the hardware but in the accessibility of usefulness of the, of the hardware.
Elisa Muñoz: Did you have any procurement challenges when it comes to the pandemic? I don't know, maybe the supply chain?
Bob Crockett: Oh man, that's, that is a, that's a problem for everyone. I will say that, that we are fortunate to have a very amazing manufacturing partner in advanced input systems and, and they have been around for 40 years. Supply chain is what they do. We as a small startup company would not have access to the, to the sort of supply chain that they provided. So that's, that's really has been a, a match that, that has been wonderful and they pulled us through during the, the pandemic and we are very grateful for.
Elisa Muñoz: Do you have any advice for future entrepreneurs or engineers or people starting on this path?
Bob Crockett: Yeah, you know, I think one of the pieces of advice that I would offer any young technical individual who, who has a technology based idea is listen, listen to, to those around you. Because so many times engineers and entrepreneurs and especially engineering entrepreneurs get emotionally attached to their technology. They, they, they fall in love with, with a particular way of doing things. And that, that gives you a little bit of a, of a narrow field of view. And the more that you have people who are willing to give you honest feedback, and this could be early customers, it could be mentors, it could be people who, who really dislike your technology, listen to what they're saying and, and if, if a particular direction isn't panning out the way you thought, cuz nobody knows exactly how things are going to evolve as, as a technology matures, if you see it veering off off course, be willing to discard it. That's, that's something that hap tech has always been technology agnostic.
We wanna build the best system that we can and if a newer, better technology comes along, we'll be the first in line to fold it in. So the bottom line is, listen to the very important advice from people around you and make your own, you know, synthesis and, and decisions about, about how to use that advice. But don't wait too long within your own world before you, you interact with others.
Elisa Muñoz: Thank you so much for sharing Bob.
Bob Crockett: Thank you. It's, it's been fun. I appreciate you having me.
